Topic: Understand Programming (For beginners)

I made a tutorial on how to understand computer programming/coding.

This tutorial is for BEGINNERS.

http://snapguide.com/guides/understand- … ogramming/

Re: Understand Programming (For beginners)

I've had a look at the first pages and I must say you did a very good job; comparing programming with everyday stuff is the best way to make people understand the logic behind it. Bravo!
I know some people who see programming as magic I could give that to read big_smile

Re: Understand Programming (For beginners)

Hehe. Tell you the truth, I am just a novice programmer. I got a little frustrated trying to find an easy introduction for beginners, so I just took a little time to find something to compare it to.

I initially used the Movie Script analogy, but some ideas didn't flow well with that analogy. But since Snapguide is popular for recipes, I used that analogy, because most people on that site have a good idea of how recipes work.

I don't even know lua, but I have written two lua programs that work in Maratis. Go figure.

Thankfully the Maratis API is MUCH easier to figure out than Unity. (By the way I was looking at a unity tutorial when I stumbled across this engine. haha.)

Glad an actual programmer thought the tutorial was good. hehe. Thanks.

Re: Understand Programming (For beginners)

Tutorial Doctor wrote:

Hehe. Tell you the truth, I am just a novice programmer. I got a little frustrated trying to find an easy introduction for beginners, so I just took a little time to find something to compare it to.

I initially used the Movie Script analogy, but some ideas didn't flow well with that analogy. But since Snapguide is popular for recipes, I used that analogy, because most people on that site have a good idea of how recipes work.

I don't even know lua, but I have written two lua programs that work in Maratis. Go figure.

Thankfully the Maratis API is MUCH easier to figure out than Unity. (By the way I was looking at a unity tutorial when I stumbled across this engine. haha.)

Glad an actual programmer thought the tutorial was good. hehe. Thanks.

AS a beginner, you should consider putting your current work under 'showcase' so as to show others who come here ( and they WILL checkout showcase to see what h as been done so far , with this engine) what can be done by someone with next to no programming knowledge.

Thx wink
hs

Re: Understand Programming (For beginners)

heartseed wrote:
Tutorial Doctor wrote:

Hehe. Tell you the truth, I am just a novice programmer. I got a little frustrated trying to find an easy introduction for beginners, so I just took a little time to find something to compare it to.

I initially used the Movie Script analogy, but some ideas didn't flow well with that analogy. But since Snapguide is popular for recipes, I used that analogy, because most people on that site have a good idea of how recipes work.

I don't even know lua, but I have written two lua programs that work in Maratis. Go figure.

Thankfully the Maratis API is MUCH easier to figure out than Unity. (By the way I was looking at a unity tutorial when I stumbled across this engine. haha.)

Glad an actual programmer thought the tutorial was good. hehe. Thanks.

AS a beginner, you should consider putting your current work under 'showcase' so as to show others who come here ( and they WILL checkout showcase to see what h as been done so far , with this engine) what can be done by someone with next to no programming knowledge.

Thx wink
hs

I definitely will heartseed! I am working on getting a decent workflow going. I am learning blender right now, but I will surely document what I am doing. I decided to only post what was done with Maratis in the showcase area, and while I have done a little here and a little there, I want what I post in the showcase area to be good and a selling point for Maratis itself.

I am actually in the process of rigging my BaseCharacters in Blender as I type!

Next is Animating and then IMPORTING INTO MARATIS!!

I know there are only a few people in these forums. But the hopefully I can convince people how easy it really is (And this is VERY easy compared to Unity)

Thanks for the tip!

Last edited by Tutorial Doctor (2013-08-21 05:00:08)

Re: Understand Programming (For beginners)

It's not just that it is 'easy' to use, a full featured engine must also have features AND docs, are atm sadly, maratis docs are pretty horribly lacking both on the c++ side and lua. Don't ask a non programmer like me ( or fairly yourself, as you won't be able to do so not understanding how to program in c++, and doubtfully lua as even lua takes a long time to be fully 'versed' in how to adequately and professionally use it, but its far easier than c++ at least, in my view anyway) to document the wiki for docs ( not saying you did, but someone else here did) to start this process immediately as it's going to take me a very long time to be able to do that, but as noted elsewhere, Im here as  I admire maratis editor, versus the mostly non existant 3d editor other engines have.

The one huge thing unity has ( at a huge cost though !) that maratis does not, is terrain. Even irrrpg has terrain ( based on tiles), and it makes using it a dream and gets you juices flowing to 'create' something.  Maratis is lacking terrain, and that's a huge issue for many people I'm  quite certain. I have no idea how easy it would be to add terrain, but I"d have no idea, again, as a non  c++ coder. If we had terrain of the geomipmapp variety, I am rather certain you'd see far more people using this engine . That's an assumption but prob. a fairly good one.

We also lack dynamic lighting, which I suppose to some is a detriment as well to the engines adoption, but someone with solid c++ coding skillls could prob. add that easily enough, though atm it's only possible to add one plugin, until NIsturs multiple plugin extention is added to maratis. Tha't s my understanding anyway from discussion on this topic.

So docs aren't enough entirely on their own.  Granted dynamic lighting isn't a must to be certain nor is terrain, but afa unity goes, it explains why the engine is as popular as it is I suspect wink

I'ts wonderful maratis exists but what it lacks is prob. not helping either, and its going to take a solid c++ coder to add what it is missing at the moment.

At least the editor being as useful as it is helps a great deal in attracting new users, which is how I arrived wink

Cheers
hs

Re: Understand Programming (For beginners)

How are you today heartseed:

On documentation:
True, it does need a little more documentation, or at least a pdf file with what IS available on a wiki. But I might do that myself anyhow (at least the lua part).

On Features:
True, it will take a good c++ user to add some features needed. For instance, someone wondered how to get the global location of a child object. Another wondered how to get an object to cast shadows, but the object next to it not to cast shadows. (The light determines the shadow casting, where as the objects should have a ''Cast shadows off'' switch).

On terrain:
Actually, I can get terrain easily, and a more accurate terrain by using Google Sketchup and exporting it right into Maratis (I have a post on it). I even prefer that to Unity. So terrain is not a big deal. It's a three step process. MODEL IT, EXPORT IT, IMPORT INTO MARATIS. And I like the fact that Maratis doesn't have all these types of features in it. It should remain a host for files, but not try to be the BE ALL (Blender tries to be the BE ALL, and it sorta has to).

I think more work needs to be on the IMPORT options and SUPPORT options. Keep Maratis as basic as you can, and just make it a host for game making. I mean, it's a game engine, but it shouldn't be a modeling engine or an animation engine, etc. Then people can use their own modeling software and just load it into Maratis.

On dynamic lighting:
The example with the teapot and the rotating lamp are truly all the dynamic lighting effects I need. The main thing needed is a little extra on the Redering aspect. But that can easily be solved by finding a decent free and open source renderer that can be integrated into Maratis. Yafaray, Kerkythea, etc

On Coding:
I think it would be wise to do some socializing in the Blender world. So many plugins in blender that are free and open source, I am sure at least someone can knows lua or enough about programming to do something awesome with it. Even though Blender uses Python, I think Lua is easier personally. Sketchup Exporter would be great too. Sketchup uses Ruby.

I'd try to convert some Blender script writers.

On Maratis:

Just yesterday I rigged a model in blender and go the animation into Maratis EASILY! That's all I really need. As far as Rendering, I am going to bake my light and textures into some of my static meshes and use the idea from that teapot scene to get whatever dynamics I need.

In other words, it only takes a little creativity, and even with the lacking features and terrain and whatever else, I truly feel I can make a WORTHWHILE game with Maratis, even at it's present state (And it doesn't take much effort as far as the technical side is concerned) and that is exciting!

(And believe me, I am a real novice. haha)

Re: Understand Programming (For beginners)

I"Ts not going to help to socialize in blender, not to any great extent, of that Im sure. I've seen people try to socialize on blender forums only to be met with harsh treatment, and those people know who they are. Sad too, given blender's great feature set FOR FREE, but being treated horribly BY PROMINENT m embers of the community, does NOT make me want to use the software, which is why today, I avoid blender like the plague it is. I am GLAD people use it who can't afford anything else, but I guarantee you, the day I have enough money, Ill be buying 3ds max and be glad of IT wink It's a true shame I can't use blender b ecause of the harsh community members and how I was treated, but those are facts and how life goes sometimes.  I learned from that harsh treatment, and its a real shame as I wanted to enjoy using it, but thats no longer possible.

You can't  make terrain exported from sketchup WORK in maraits, where did you get that idea from ?
EDIT EDIT EDIT: What I meant by that was that there is no 'terrain' system from skethcup, but of course you can 'make' your own , or even download a piece of google earth, which takes a fair bit of editing etc., and then load into maratis into pieces, but I think that's only with the blender exporter ? ( anael would have to comment on that, as I dont recall)

Yes, you can download terrain from google earth,  bring it into skethcup and all, but getting it ready for maratis is NO easy task, trust me Ive done it. I"ts not a simple task. For those wanting to make terrain themselves maybe there is some skethcup tutorial ( skethcup is my ONLY solace now given blender is totally OFF the table, and thank goodness for that at least I guess, though skethcup makes doing SOME things difficult, because it asks for MONEY for some plugins, which is really shameful, but thats capitalism for you right ? wink  - ) Maybe I should look for a terrain creation TUTorial in skethcup, but even if I find one, making the terrain performant in maratis is another hassle, given you need to find a way to chop up the mesh before export so that it gets good performance INSIDE maratis, otherwise it won't, unless its as V ERY small terrain.  Unity users have that one solid advantage ? of being able to use HUGE terrain so they wish to, whereas Im not atm sure, maraits could do that wiht its current rendering abilities. I've no doubt maratis was n ever dESIGNED for that, just saying alot of people like huge terrain for the desings it allows them to do, and being able to make subsequent money from said endeavor wink

ON the teapot, are you sure that's a 'dynanic light' possiblity ? I don't recall reading that anywhere, so where did you get that from, maybe I missed it,,,That would c ertainly add a 'feature' to this engine worthy of NOTE. I doubt its what you think though, because anael has not added 'dynamic lighting' to the feature LIST.

cheers
hs

Re: Understand Programming (For beginners)

Wow, I didn't know that the Blender people were rude like that. I'm sorry. I am actually not a part of their community, and I prefer 3dsmax myself. hehe. I used to have GMAX, which was like a free trial version of max. Haha.

The teapot example I am thinking of is the shadTest project. I don't know if that is considered dynamic lighting, but I see the shadows moving in the game. Between that example and the jules example, and what I have done so far, I am sure I can make a decent game (have checked out some other examples too).

I am getting ready to test out some things as far as sketchup terrain, and I will report back. Take care.

Edit: Well, got it to work! hehe:

PunBB bbcode test

Last edited by Tutorial Doctor (2013-08-21 17:30:43)

Re: Understand Programming (For beginners)

HI TD,

NO offense meant at all, but your terrain example is very very basic ( not texture splatting , which can be brought in ? I think but its been far too long and I don't how its done. Zester I think did something similar but only in blender, so I have no idea how it would be done in any other app given blender is the only one for which there is a official exporter, and 3dsmax kinda is on teh shelf atm given the person who started it is certainly busy with other things no fault of h is own.He was working on moving entirely to maxscript, but I have  no idea of his progress as in whats left or how hard doing all of it is.

FOR a large terrain, and for the engine to 'cull' parts of it ( occlusion culling works yet, or is planned ? dont' recall====) the engine 'mesh' must be split up into pieces.  You can get away with small meshs I guess and do aLOT of scene loading/portaling, but then I don't know that sorta ruins the immersion process. Dunno, experimentation would need to be done I guess wink)))

NOthing wrong with experimenting, and I guess once multiple plugins are doable, then maybe even a  LOD GMM'd  &/or streaming terrain plugin would make this engine far more enticing, as if it isn't already wink)

cheers
hs

11

Re: Understand Programming (For beginners)

Tutorial Doctor wrote:

On documentation:
True, it does need a little more documentation, or at least a pdf file with what IS available on a wiki. But I might do that myself anyhow (at least the lua part).

If you could do some examples/tutorials for Lua in the wiki that would be cool, since I'm planning to do the C++ part.
Here you go:
http://wiki.maratis3d.org/index.php?tit … _.28Lua.29
tongue

Last edited by 255 (2013-08-22 13:54:27)

Re: Understand Programming (For beginners)

Tutorial Doctor wrote:

Wow, I didn't know that the Blender people were rude like that. I'm sorry. I am actually not a part of their community, and I prefer 3dsmax myself. hehe. I used to have GMAX, which was like a free trial version of max. Haha.

The teapot example I am thinking of is the shadTest project. I don't know if that is considered dynamic lighting, but I see the shadows moving in the game. Between that example and the jules example, and what I have done so far, I am sure I can make a decent game (have checked out some other examples too).

I am getting ready to test out some things as far as sketchup terrain, and I will report back. Take care.

Edit: Well, got it to work! hehe:

PunBB bbcode test


Oh btw, those torches are going to come in VERY handy for skydiving@

hahaha

cu wink
lee
P.s.-HUMOR matters wink

Re: Understand Programming (For beginners)

heartseed wrote:
Tutorial Doctor wrote:

Wow, I didn't know that the Blender people were rude like that. I'm sorry. I am actually not a part of their community, and I prefer 3dsmax myself. hehe. I used to have GMAX, which was like a free trial version of max. Haha.

The teapot example I am thinking of is the shadTest project. I don't know if that is considered dynamic lighting, but I see the shadows moving in the game. Between that example and the jules example, and what I have done so far, I am sure I can make a decent game (have checked out some other examples too).

I am getting ready to test out some things as far as sketchup terrain, and I will report back. Take care.

Edit: Well, got it to work! hehe:

PunBB bbcode test


Oh btw, those torches are going to come in VERY handy for skydiving@

hahaha

cu wink
lee
P.s.-HUMOR matters wink

haha. I moved the terrain down and didn't get the torches, as it was a test. I actually scrapped the changes I made to the jules project to get it back to normal. I just wanted to test it with working code.

P.s. skydiving with a torch would be very impressive to see. hehe