Topic: Blender and Maratis don't ''MIX"

I just watched a video that confirmed all of my issues with Blender:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYiiD-p … wbjyb9Iu1g

Maratis is a good engine, but having to go through Blender to even make good use of it is not ideal. I would rather use 3dsmax or Cinema 4d.

Blender is free, and we like free, but it lacks in good DESIGN. It has for the longest lacked design. While the layout has improved somewhat as far as how it looks, the LOCATION and AVAILABILITY of the tools seems non existent without remembering 100 shortcuts.

I spent all day yesterday trying to UV map something. I had to tap in and out of edit mode, switch back and forth between UV channels, test render a billion times. Black textures, artifacts, errors, UGHH!

Blender alone makes me want to use Maratis anymore, and just go to Unity 3d. But unity also has a bad interface, and it costs so much.

I can't model in Blender at all. I use Wings3D, Sketchup, Sculptris, and perhaps this new software I downloaded called MeshMixer. Yet, to get them animated I have to go into Blender. I can UV edit in Wings, but actually Blender is easier (now).

I have to bake shadows in Blender also (although I do know of some good commercial software that can do it better).

I am a novice, so I don't want to pay for software just to learn the PRINCIPLES of how to do it.

I have used Maratis to learn game design, but Blender itself is the main hangup. Perhaps the reason people don't stick around for Maratis long.

Then again, if you don't have Max or Maya, your'e out of luck, so ''BACK TO BLENDER WE GO.''

I am even contemplating buying Poser again, solely for animation. smh

Maratis is great, Blender is questionable. What to do?

Re: Blender and Maratis don't ''MIX"

Hmm i use blender and i am quite comfortable with it . i kinda like the maratis editor as well because it has resemblance  to  blender  (weird i guess) .
the video by andrew price was not to discourage anybody to use blender  but to discuss issues in design of blender and fix them .
Yes blender has a interface that takes time to learn and be comfortable to be able to use i don't know if its worth it or not because there is no good choices except for blender for me other softwares are not affordable at all .


Rather than "Unmix" blender and maratis  .we should add support to other 3d pacakges and leave the current pipeline of blender to maratis as it is .

Btw its not really maratis or blender's fault here if you can afford and use other 3d packages use them for your pipeline who is stopping you? (adding support to other 3d packages wont take that long )

Last edited by Crucio777 (2013-09-26 19:10:48)

Re: Blender and Maratis don't ''MIX"

I like blender, I like modeling in blender, texturing, animating ,its very simple . The blender export plugin is one of the reasons I like maratis , its so simple to create the object, animate it an whatnot and then just simply send it to maratis .The interface is not bad at all you just have to get used to it. Watch some tutorials and whatnot. Support for other formats will come soon enough but if you cant wait for it *points toward the door* get out.

Re: Blender and Maratis don't ''MIX"

Yeah, Andrew Price has a VERY good portfolio using Blender, and I have watched several of his hour long tutorials. But I would think that after using it so efficiently, he should have no issues getting around in Blender. I was thinking it was me, but it isn't.

The video only describes "some" of the inconsistencies of Blender, but throughout, Blender is consistently inconsistent.

Cost is my main issue with commercial software. $200 for a capable commercial software, to me, is a decent price. But $3,000? $7,000? neh. Hehe

I thought of taking some time to program my own tools for Blender, but even the API is not organized well.

(By the way, I'm sorta nick-picky about design) I am still trying to create a workflow (without interface debugging), and I can get a game made in about 30 minutes  (been working on tools to aid in development, rather than just making a game.) Blender is capable, but so annoying when trying to do complex things, and even when trying to do simple things.

I'll keep at it though.

  • anael
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Re: Blender and Maratis don't ''MIX"

I worked with 3dsmax a lot before, personally and professionally, and I can tell you today that Blender is more powerful and flexible, Maya is not bad thought.

Maratis can now load Collada files, so you can totally import meshs from 3dsmax or Maya, Collada supports animations, uvs and materials.

Use File > Import 3d model,
and select the collada file to import to your Maratis project.
Maratis will convert the collada and save them as native .mesh files in your_project/meshs/

You may have to tweak some little things by opening the converted files with a text editor (it's xml)
for example to create multi-animations or modify the materials.

Re: Blender and Maratis don't ''MIX"

anael wrote:

I worked with 3dsmax a lot before, personally and professionally, and I can tell you today that Blender is more powerful and flexible, Maya is not bad thought.

Maratis can now load Collada files, so you can totally import meshs from 3dsmax or Maya, Collada supports animations, uvs and materials.

Use File > Import 3d model,
and select the collada file to import to your Maratis project.
Maratis will convert the collada and save them as native .mesh files in your_project/meshs/

You may have to tweak some little things by opening the converted files with a text editor (it's xml)
for example to create multi-animations or modify the materials.

Indeed, Blender is much more flexible than 3dsmax. I do, however think that 3dsmax is more stable, and better organized.

My brother said it was easier to make stuff in Blender, so we had a race.

We were to make boxes and see who went faster. By the time he made 4 boxes, I had 20 +

He had to reminder shortcuts or navigate menus. This panel that panel etc.

As far as speed, sketchup is the fastest modeler. Sketchup also wins in accuracy(for certain types of models), but now that Trimble owns it, I doubt it will be developed as often as it was at google.

Assimp works VERY well, but that is only after the object is made.

I do can get around in Blender today, better than I ever could 8 years ago. But to go to the next level it needs some design help (which is the main reason it became more appealing recently)

  • VeganDev
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Re: Blender and Maratis don't ''MIX"

If max is SO MUCH more powerful and flexible, then why do schools use  max ( or maya) or why do almost ALL studios use maya/max for game development ??? Do you mean to tell me , that they are forced to use it out of some obligation, or is it that max has the tools studios need and want, for  development. I suppose mudbox has something to do with that as well, as mudbox is king in the world of 3d painting. I've tried blender , when I can stand to u se it at all, and its slow in many areas in that regard. No idea why, but it is, and my    cpu is Athlon II X3 3.2ghz and 8800 gtx GPU and 8 gb ram.

I mean there  is like zero comparison between blender and max/maya. Just zero. Yes blender is free, with is a godsend for those with little or no money, but I guarantee you, if I did have sufficient money, I"d be using maya or max and never look back one day.

The blender devs have ego issues, and if you doubt that, just check out the blenderartist forums, and see what a MESS they  helped make out of the discussion about 'turntable vs trackball'...I know, because I was in there FIGHTING to get turntable made default..and I was right, because well ahem, now IT IS wink. But it took moving mountains and MEAN spirited language by 'michael' and some weird comments/suggestions by Ton himself , to get there.

Is that a good community ?

That is in huge measure, why I refuse to use blender today, unless I have no choice.

You can't tell me, that a 'free' program , is more capable than a $4000 program, because Ill just laugh out loud.

If you say it is true, then show me,,Im from Missouri, and I want you to show me how a free app overcomes a $4000

application wink

Yes on the having to go through blender,,I also find that very annoying, because I'd rather use ANY other 3d modeling app but blender, and sometimes going though 'import 3d model' doesn't quite work, but going through maratis export does ( like for sculptris, blah).

This is a free engine, so having blender use maratis exporter exclusively isn't a mind blowing fact, but I think its a problem in other ways that max, maya or others have nothing but assimp, and we can't count the exporter the other guy ( sorry can't recall his name atm) is working on for max, because he doesn't have time to fix it so it runs everywhere ( all max versions), and there is nothing for maya or any other 3d app like 3d cinema for example.    Ogre3d at least has most of those covered pretty  nicely.

  • VeganDev
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Re: Blender and Maratis don't ''MIX"

Crucio777 wrote:

Hmm i use blender and i am quite comfortable with it . i kinda like the maratis editor as well because it has resemblance  to  blender  (weird i guess) .
the video by andrew price was not to discourage anybody to use blender  but to discuss issues in design of blender and fix them .
Yes blender has a interface that takes time to learn and be comfortable to be able to use i don't know if its worth it or not because there is no good choices except for blender for me other softwares are not affordable at all .


Rather than "Unmix" blender and maratis  .we should add support to other 3d pacakges and leave the current pipeline of blender to maratis as it is .

Btw its not really maratis or blender's fault here if you can afford and use other 3d packages use them for your pipeline who is stopping you? (adding support to other 3d packages wont take that long )

Trouble is, who is going to do that..the  max author on these forums no longer seems ? to be maintaining that as he hadn't the time ( he hasn't posted here in ages, literally), and the community is just too tiny atm for anyone else, likely, to   be either a good enough programmer to do it or have the time I guess...All fair points, just saying...Either someone has time and the knowledge or they don't, and on top of that its going to take someone doing a LONG night or two or ten, because this community is just far too small to see various people take up that particular challenge.

I also agree about stability...Iv'e seen blender crash and otherwise have video artifacting on moving the preference menu, and 3ds max does none of those things that I've ever seen.

  • VeganDev
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Re: Blender and Maratis don't ''MIX"

P.s.--its SO not true, that if you don't have max, you are STUCK with blender ( short of maratis exporter for blender).

There is anim8or, art of illusion, k3d  , sculptris, milkshape 3d ( which is very cheap, but Ive no idea how good it is )and also :

http://www.hongkiat.com/blog/25-free-3d … -not-miss/

Some url's may be bad, but anyway there it is.

SIlo 3d is prob. a great bet for game dev, and its not that  hugely expensive compared to max/maya etc.

Also I found this in reference to blender or 3ds max, and specifically game development of course:

http://www.crydev.net/viewtopic.php?f=315&t=103477

http://forum.unity3d.com/threads/133112 … nd-Blender

Both game development forums, and there are pros and cons, so you decide.

Also, I suggest ( to get a similar feature list of  blender or max, etc.) :
http://www.artofillusion.org/downloads < Art Of Illusion , if you are truly still seeking alternatives and want to keep modeling, animation, texturing, etc..

If you go that route, these tuts are invaluable, with myself going through them:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFiRH3f … 7B_2jBpqB0

A added note, I really think AOI has potential to be a easy alternative to , name3d app of choice, as it has animation compositing modeling blah, and you can by default, import DEM files, and we all know how kewl things are if you want visually kewl terrain support ( via model of course);) It also has a plant module, but It looks a bit complex so Ive not tried it yet.

  • anael
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Re: Blender and Maratis don't ''MIX"

3dsmax is the most unstable 3d software of all,
but yes it's interface is better organized and classic.

I worked on a 3d tv serie production last year using 3dsmax and I was missing Blender.
School and studios used 3dsmax because it's the first professional 3d software (first version was on MSDOS), it's historically the 3d software of video-game studios (not animation and cinema), but today 3dsmax is replaced by Maya in big studios and by Blender in small independent studios.

I learned 3d with 3dsmax, it's was my first software choice, but I would encourage you to learn Blender or Maya.
3dsmax is the past.

Maya and Cinema4d can export collada, so it can also be used directly with Maratis.

Re: Blender and Maratis don't ''MIX"

At the  end of the day its your choice. if you want to use small or big software its your choice and preference I personally prefer blender over all the open source softwares . if i had a choice between maya and blender i would go with maya because maya is really good  i would never switch to 3ds max though it doesn't seem powerful enough to me .

I would advise all beginners to go with blender over all Open source 3d package due to good user base and tutorials .

Yes i understand  currently no one is working on 3ds max plugins   and probably will not for a long time .
Currently collada is your best bet for importing  with other 3d packages

yes blender is unstable as well . blender is just one of those tools that you have to work around  i wish blender had a better design but there is no point in discussing over that . I personally liked that they changed the interface   in 2.5 i tried 2.4 and couldn't do anything new interface is so much better for me

As i said if you have a better choice use it or learn blender it will take some time but it will come to you big_smile

I am not much of an artist myself  more of a programmer only things i can do  little bit of rigging animation and texturing (in photoshop) i want to start learning enviroment 3d modeling for games as soon i get time .

  • VeganDev
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Re: Blender and Maratis don't ''MIX"

I think that is a bit unfounded to say '3ds max is the past'. Such a strong statement requires proof. HOw is it the past, when its used in all major universiities and prob. most game studios ? Doesn't make any sense, unless you have stats you would like to share wink I personally really like maya as it works on many platforms, and is also used    extensively in the industry.

Oh and btw, blender's  userbase doesn't mean much if they get so nastily animated over obvious things that almost all other 3d apps take for granted (* turntable):

http://blenderartists.org/forum/showthr … ball/page6

^  this is one of the biggest reasons, I decided to take another look at not using blender as much. I respect blender for the liberty it gives people who have little to no money, but given we have choices like ARt Of Illusion, shows I can try something else and not have to deal with people upset so easily ( not fun), and I've yet to see any squabbling like that on the AOI forums. Clearly they are a professional community, unlike blenderartists. 

Things like that matter a great deal to me, and I'm sure to a great many others. I've seen several times over the years where people ask for change, on some level, and are kinda stonned for it, which makes you wonder....( a thread on blender.org that I can't find atm, but I remembered it very well)

thx
vd

  • anael
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Re: Blender and Maratis don't ''MIX"

I worked with multiple studios and I know some 3d artists, it's what I saw or heard,
the current tendency is to move to Maya, it's already dominant in animation.

A lot of studios stick to 3dsmax because video-game studios develop their own scripts
to improve their pipeline, it doesn't make sense for them to move to another software.

The second thing is, specially in small studios, they don't have a lot of legal 3d software licenses (I was shocked by it) so there Blender makes a lot of sense, I try to push it when I can. Last month for example, I worked on a 3d pilot for a film project, I made the animation, rendering and compositing with Blender, and when I sent the files to the client, I could send the version of Blender with it (no compatibility problem). In the end they choose to use Maya because the motion-capture studio that will do the animation is using Maya (not because it was faster or better).

The fact is today Blender is not used a lot professionally, but it will be more and more, specially in new
and independent studios (you will probably not see Blender in EA games or Ubisoft for some time though).

Re: Blender and Maratis don't ''MIX"

Yeah, I have been seeing how the push has been to move to Maya. My cousin is in Motion Graphics, so he uses Cinema 4D.

I admit Blender has come a long way, but my annoyances were confirmed the other day.

You know how I said I was doing a bit of advertising on that one site mapcore.org? Well, as soon as someone saw Blender they expressed disgust. I sorta laughed cause I just had posted this topic.

The video above explains why so many people have this resentment. Even why I did. It is the usability that still needs help.

I like the fact that Blender is free, but it still needs help in design, as this is what makes people leave so soon. Not just because it is unfamiliar, but for the most part, illogical from a user end experience. I wanted so badly to like Blender for the longest, and lately I have started to like it a little. The design aspect needs help though.

Actually Anael, I encourage you to continue to support Blender, but as it stands, Blender itself needs a bit of work.

If only I knew how to get through Blender's API well enough, I could make a few Python scripts to clean it up a bit. It's all about presentation nowadays. hehe.

Take care.

The post at mapcore can be found here:
http://www.mapcore.org/topic/16559-free … ternative/

Re: Blender and Maratis don't ''MIX"

VeganDev wrote:

Then why do schools use  max ( or maya) or why do almost ALL studios use maya/max for game development ???

Avoid schools that only teach a particular tool, avoid all VFX schools that teach using windows. Windows isnt used in the VFX industry thats a Linux and Mac dominated market. You will find far more schools advertising Maya than 3DsMax.

These are the tools used in the professional industry.

1. MARI
2. NukeX
3. Katana
4. Hiero
5. Maya
6. Mudbox
7. Houdini
8. Modo
9. 3DCoat
10. Realflow

In regards to Indie Game Development, Unity3D dominates this area and the most used 3D package in the Unity community is  Blender.

Last edited by zester (2013-10-02 01:14:30)

  • VeganDev
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Re: Blender and Maratis don't ''MIX"

It's just such a shame, that the blender community ( and obviously some devs) can be so thoughtless;)

Such a shame...I've seen it over and over again, and the proof is on the forums ( blenderartists and I've seen other things on CGartists and  blender itself ), and I have zero desire to be any part of such disgusting behavior, even if others there are less disgusting..I'd just rather not take the chance of running into that 'attitude' ever again. That's how I feel about it, and you might too had you gone through the 'turntable vs trackball' discussion as I did, and have to deal with such arrogance and hostility. It was disgusting.

I'd be happy to leave blender in the dust and just use Maya , if money was no issue.

I am definitely glad that blender has a presence here in maratis though, because I always said to myself that I wanted to try to use all OSS , because its the great equalizer between the have's and have not's, but I can't betray my values just to use such things. That's why I steer clear of blender and have dedicated myself to Art Of Illusion, which is equally capable in many areas wink

Re: Blender and Maratis don't ''MIX"

VeganDev wrote:

It's just such a shame, that the blender community ( and obviously some devs) are such jerks wink

Such a shame...

18 years of harassment from the Autodesk community will do that to ya.

  • VeganDev
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Re: Blender and Maratis don't ''MIX"

Don't blame autodesk, that's cheap wink BLender must stand on its own, or not at all , but judging by some comments I"ve seen over time, I'm not entirely sure they care. Time will tell.

As I say and to reiterate as its important, OSS is the great equalizer vs apps that are outside the realm of possibility for most of us, but thankfully blender is far from the only choice, and with assimp that should make it all a non issue.  I'm not sure about shaders or other specific things about maratis exporter in blender, but I'd rather learn all that the hard way than be stuck using blender.

Re: Blender and Maratis don't ''MIX"

I have my own issues with Blender, centred around the user interface. However, there can be no argument about it - on a cost versus efficiency basis, it can't possibly be beaten at present. I think Andrew Price has highlighted the interface problems at the perfect time - just as the version is about to go up to 2.7 - and I suspect that his suggestions for improvement will be incorporated throughout the 2.7 series.

Don't throw Blender in the rubbish bin just yet.

Re: Blender and Maratis don't ''MIX"

I'm going to go watch Andrews video, haven't seen it yet, but from browsing the comments it appears to be about Blenders UI and plug-ins.

In regards to "Import/Export" plug-ins the situation is just as bad if not worse with 3DS and Maya, I was using Maya 2013 last night trying to export an FBX model to something Blender could read and in the end I had to use https://sites.google.com/a/render.jp/blenderfbx/ because Mayas collada, obj exporter would fail.

In my experience any format other than fbx is a gamble with Autodesk products.

For the UI complaints, the UI doesn't bother me as I use Hotkeys for everything even in other 3D packages, but solving this problem for others will not be an easy fix, as all of the follow use the Qt Toolkit for there GUI and the actual UI configuration options are a feature of Qt and not of there own.

MARI
2. NukeX
3. Katana
4. Hiero
5. Maya
6. Mudbox
7. Houdini
8. Realflow

Qt and Python is the standard for most VFX tools, Blendes UI on the other-hand is done using there own GL based UI toolkit. Much in the same-way as Maratis.

I would defiantly like to see Blender follow the trend already set by Using Qt just as I would like to see the Maratis Editor using Qt as I am a Qt dev wink but Im not going to hold my breath waiting for that to happen with Blender.

Last edited by zester (2013-10-02 13:50:57)