Topic: Realistic Modeling from a photo(discussion)

I am trying to think of a way to create a realistic model from a photo. As for buildings, Sketchup's MATCH PHOTO feature is good.

Usually, you have to have an image from several angles of a photo. However, as I posted in the gossip section, there is a company that was able to do it using some fancy software they made.

But I am wondering if there are some modeling tricks or workflows to help me get it up and working faster.

I know there is a program called 123dCatch by autodesk for the ipad that can capture an image in 360 degrees and stitch it into a 3d model, but the quality is bad (have to have things just right).

If 3d modeling were more like drawing, then it would be easy (reason why sketchpup works)

When I arrive at the answer(going to try to arrive today) I will post it here.

Edit: Okay, So far I have the idea to use a displacement map and a normal map

Say for instance I want to make a tree. I create displacement for the bark using a displacement map for bark of a tree. Then I render a normal map from the high poly mesh. Then I create a basic tree And apply the normal map. Then I switch out textures. If I make the normal map a tiled texture it should be okay for basic things.

I am going to try this one out.

Last edited by Tutorial Doctor (2013-10-21 19:18:20)

Re: Realistic Modeling from a photo(discussion)

My first attempt is a winner!

Steps:
Create a two planes of the same size.

Move one above the other

Subdivide the bottom one a bunch

Add a displace modifier to it and use your bark image as the displacement texture(has to be loaded and should be black and white). Now your subdivided plane should have more geometry similar to the image. Apply the modifier.

Select the high poly mesh and then shift-select the low poly mesh.Create bake the normal maps from this high-poly geometry to an image.  Also, make sure to use SELECTED TO ACTIVE under the render tab so that the selected high poly mesh gets baked to the low poly's UV coordinates.

Apply them to the low-poly plane (Make sure NORMAL MAP is selected under Image sampling in the texture slot).

Using several normal maps (one for smaller details and another for larger details) ads depth to the texture.
PunBB bbcode test

This model is only ONE POLYGON

Meshes must be UV unrapped, and I used PROJECT FROM VIEW to keep the mapping identical.

Last edited by Tutorial Doctor (2013-10-21 20:13:56)

Re: Realistic Modeling from a photo(discussion)

Tutorial Doctor wrote:

I am trying to think of a way to create a realistic model from a photo. As for buildings, Sketchup's MATCH PHOTO feature is good.

I know of a couple of different ways to do this in blender, one common method is to use inkscape to trace an image and then export that to svg, you import the svg into blender and you have an 3d outline of your model.

Tutorial Doctor wrote:

Usually, you have to have an image from several angles of a photo. However, as I posted in the gossip section, there is a company that was able to do it using some fancy software they made.

Blender can do this.

Tutorial Doctor wrote:

But I am wondering if there are some modeling tricks or workflows to help me get it up and working faster.

Pick something anything(Blender 3DS, Maya, Modo, ...) already and learn to use it. Jumping from one piece of software to the next isn't helping you any.

Tutorial Doctor wrote:

I know there is a program called 123dCatch by autodesk for the ipad that can capture an image in 360 degrees and stitch it into a 3d model, but the quality is bad (have to have things just right).

Blender does this to.

Tutorial Doctor wrote:

If 3d modeling were more like drawing, then it would be easy (reason why sketchpup works)

wink You already know what I am going to say don't you. Blender already does this and here is a tutorial on just (one) method
Surface Sketching http://vimeo.com/10695820

Last edited by zester (2013-10-21 20:36:19)

Re: Realistic Modeling from a photo(discussion)

Haha, you must have been typing as I was editing this. haha. I did it.

Re: Realistic Modeling from a photo(discussion)

Tutorial Doctor wrote:

My first attempt is a winner!

Steps:
Create a two planes of the same size.

Move one above the other

Subdivide the bottom one a bunch

Add a displace modifier to it and use your bark image as the displacement texture(has to be loaded and should be black and white). Now your subdivided plane should have more geometry similar to the image. Apply the modifier.

Select the high poly mesh and then shift-select the low poly mesh.Create bake the normal maps from this high-poly geometry to an image.  Also, make sure to use SELECTED TO ACTIVE under the render tab so that the selected high poly mesh gets baked to the low poly's UV coordinates.

Apply them to the low-poly plane (Make sure NORMAL MAP is selected under Image sampling in the texture slot).

Using several normal maps (one for smaller details and another for larger details) ads depth to the texture.
PunBB bbcode test

This model is only ONE POLYGON

Meshes must be UV unrapped, and I used PROJECT FROM VIEW to keep the mapping identical.

Thats just one way, there are others. This might not work on something really complicated and structured like a building unless you make a really good height map. It really depends on what you want to do, for instance if you want to do something like this ....

http://www.scifi-meshes.com/articles/images/anselstarwars/02.jpg

You would box model the ship without any detail and then texture it with greebles. Lucas Arts developed the method for the starwars movies and now everyone does it like that. Super simple and gives amazing results, especially since we use computers now to do it lol.

Here is a box after being greebleized.
http://createdigitalmotion.com/files/2011/04/Greeble.png

Here is some example greebles.
http://www.filterforge.com/filters/8856-normal.jpg
http://cgcnetworksites.cgcookie.netdna-cdn.com/unity/files/2013/02/blender_resource_brush-pack_01_feature.png
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-1VkfMuwSyMc/UYNgieALZXI/AAAAAAAAAQc/Vs5D9JtiR3Y/s1600/NORMAL+PRE+copy_NRM.png

Last edited by zester (2013-10-21 20:50:02)

Re: Realistic Modeling from a photo(discussion)

Hmm, so a greeble is a combination of normal maps and displacement maps?

Last edited by Tutorial Doctor (2013-10-21 21:30:36)

Re: Realistic Modeling from a photo(discussion)

Tutorial Doctor wrote:

Hmm, so a greeble is a combination of normal maps and displacement maps?

Greeble  "A greeble or nurnie is a fine detailing added to the surface of a larger object that makes it appear more complex, and therefore more visually interesting."

You could use displacement maps but normally, I think normal maps are all that's called for.

  • VeganDev
  • Vegan, Humanitarian Game Developer
  • Offline

Re: Realistic Modeling from a photo(discussion)

zester wrote:
Tutorial Doctor wrote:

Hmm, so a greeble is a combination of normal maps and displacement maps?

Greeble  "A greeble or nurnie is a fine detailing added to the surface of a larger object that makes it appear more complex, and therefore more visually interesting."

You could use displacement maps but normally, I think normal maps are all that's called for.

Trouble is though  I don't think you are giving us all the info. Where do we get the normal map from if not the high res texture ? Where does that come from, if you don't create it first ? That doesn't sound quick, or easy to me at all. Details needed wink We don't all work for game studios and therefore have this info at quick retrieval wink

thx
VD

Last edited by VeganDev (2013-10-21 22:31:19)

Re: Realistic Modeling from a photo(discussion)

VeganDev wrote:
zester wrote:
Tutorial Doctor wrote:

Hmm, so a greeble is a combination of normal maps and displacement maps?

Greeble  "A greeble or nurnie is a fine detailing added to the surface of a larger object that makes it appear more complex, and therefore more visually interesting."

You could use displacement maps but normally, I think normal maps are all that's called for.

Trouble is though  I don't think you are giving us all the info. Where do we get the normal map from if not the high res texture ? Where does that come from, if you don't create it first ? That doesn't sound quick, or easy to me at all. Details needed wink We don't all work for game studios and therefore have this info at quick retrieval wink

thx
VD

You create them and build a collection, like anything in game development and use them when needed. He made a greeble above. You can paint greebles in gimp and generate the normalmap with the normalmap plugin or insanebump. You can find a cool picture with a pattern you like and generate a normal map and use that.

"A greeble or nurnie is a fine detailing added to the surface of a larger object that makes it appear more complex, and therefore more visually interesting."

You could use a displacement map, but I don't really see a need for it. Displacement maps are good for making terrains or highly detailed objects like a shield with a lions head ...

http://images.asadart.com/sources/com/halloweenexpress/images/imagecache/696-768-dg14438fix.jpg

other than that there not that much use for them, there better for cg movies or rendered art.

Last edited by zester (2013-10-21 23:13:43)

Re: Realistic Modeling from a photo(discussion)

Hmm, very interesting, I think I get it now. Shortly before I decided to learn game design (The same day I joined the Maratis site) I was learning about Moulding and Casting. This sort of reminds me of a 3D mould.

I see now why they would be stored as in a collection to be reused. In fact, those greebles look like moulds.

Thanks for the info.

Last edited by Tutorial Doctor (2013-10-21 23:21:28)

Re: Realistic Modeling from a photo(discussion)

Hot dog! haha. I downloaded the InsaneBump plugin for Gimp, AS WELL AS NormalMap plugin (Needed to use the InsaneBump plugin), and I was able to generate a Normal Map like butter in NO TIME!

Good responses in this thread. Thanks!
PunBB bbcode test

Last edited by Tutorial Doctor (2013-10-22 00:09:07)

  • VeganDev
  • Vegan, Humanitarian Game Developer
  • Offline

Re: Realistic Modeling from a photo(discussion)

I think what's not being said here, is that to get anything that is going to look appropriate for the type of game you need, most likely is going to take a lot of artist time, that or maybe for some prototype, or a game where detail is less an issue, then a greeble might be ok. Example, I find it very very hard to believe, the starship above, was just made by greebles, because the detail looks to me to be very precise.

Until I see a video showing the entire process of such a highly detailed object done, the starship for example, I refuse to believe that's how it was done. SOrry, but sometimes I call a spade a spade wink Im also from Missouri, its the 'show me' state wink Words are cheap. THe normal map thing is obvious  but that's a far cry away from making something as complex as a starship skin from the offered picture wink

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greeble < if you checkout this page, it sure sounds to me as though greebles were : "  created automatically by specific software in order to avoid the time consuming process of manually creating large numbers of precise, custom geometry. This can often be tedious, and repetitive work, and some consider it a task best suited to automatic, software based procedural generation, particularly if a great degree of control is unnecessary or the greebles will not be particularly large on screen. Most greeble generating software work by sub-dividing the surface to be greebled into smaller regions, adding some detail to each new surface, and then recursively continuing this process on each new surface to some specified level of detail. Similar algorithms are used in the creation of fractal surfaces.  "

Last edited by VeganDev (2013-10-22 01:47:18)

Re: Realistic Modeling from a photo(discussion)

VeganDev wrote:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greeble < if you checkout this page, it sure sounds to me as though greebles were : "  created automatically by specific software in order to avoid the time consuming process of manually creating large numbers of precise, custom geometry. This can often be tedious, and repetitive work, and some consider it a task best suited to automatic, software based procedural generation, particularly if a great degree of control is unnecessary or the greebles will not be particularly large on screen. Most greeble generating software work by sub-dividing the surface to be greebled into smaller regions, adding some detail to each new surface, and then recursively continuing this process on each new surface to some specified level of detail. Similar algorithms are used in the creation of fractal surfaces.  "

Well finding a screenshot of a computer motherboard, converting it to a normal map using the normalmap or insanebum plugin, and tiling the normalmap or painting the normal map on the parts of your spaceship model sure does sound automated to me verses, modeling that surface detail by hand.

http://img.directindustry.com/images_di/photo-g/industrial-atx-motherboard-7058-2716015.jpg

Not to mention if you actually modeled that surface detail your, talking 1million+ polys easy. That cpu slot looks like it would make a good hatch or landing platform.

Last edited by zester (2013-10-22 06:26:13)

Re: Realistic Modeling from a photo(discussion)

Here VeganDev I tested it out for you.....

Story: As Zester, TD, VeganDev  enter,  what appears to be an abondoned alien spacecraft, Zester smiles at TD clips a lifeline to VeganDevs harness and pushes him over the side. As both Zester and TD ROFL they can here VeganDev whimpering "THAT WASN'T FUNNY GUYS!!!!" Zester reply's with "Ohhh hush your not hurt, by the way how far is the drop and do you see anything that looks like alien eggs?" VeganDev responds with "YAH its far and I see .... there is something moving down here" Zester then pulls his flash light from his belt turns it on and tosses it over the side. TD looks at zester confused. Zester responds  "he is from Missouri, its the 'show me' state well, if there hostile or hungry he will find out in a min." TD "Gocha good thinking".

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-mjO4kMlfvWI/UmYhEdh2AnI/AAAAAAAABtc/R3ZqV3KlTAU/w960-h540-no/untitled.png

5 Min later TD turns to Zester "He doesn't sound to good down there" Zester responds "VeganDev you want my LazerBlaster?"
VeganDev "Ahhhh oh god its in my mouth, caugh caugh ahhhhhh no no no no!!!!!!". Zester "Hmmm nope looks like he has it under control, besides he is non-violent I don't think he uses firearms"  TD "Ohhh thats right ok".


And that ladys and gents is the power of a short story, a 6 poly cube and a motherboard greeble, and why irritating me while on a strange alienship is typically a bad idea.

Captain's Zester and TD were later accommodated and ranked to General, for there bravery and heroic efforts and discovering the mating habits of the "Vocteee" a previously unknown and intelligent species of space squid originating from the third moon of saturn.

Last edited by zester (2013-10-22 11:09:09)

Re: Realistic Modeling from a photo(discussion)

Okay, I just used InsaneBump with NormalMap plugin together. And it is...

INSANE!!! Just spits out calculations and Im like wha...?

Then PRESTO, all the maps you could ever need. I have photoshop on my computer when Adobe was giving CS2 out for free, and I think I like Gimp Better. haha.

Re: Realistic Modeling from a photo(discussion)

Zester, I used that photo you posted for this one and all I can say is WOW. The photo on the left is a flat plane, and the one on the right is a subdivided one with a displace modifier:

PunBB bbcode test

Boosting the Specular map intensity:
PunBB bbcode test

Just imagine if I could get Ambient Occlusion to work with this flat plane. Hmm, Guess I gotta figure that one out as Gimp doesn't render AO maps.

Edit: I was able to get one of the generated maps to sorta work for AO. Nice!

Last edited by Tutorial Doctor (2013-10-22 17:01:54)

Re: Realistic Modeling from a photo(discussion)

Okay, Let's make this post more interesting.

REALISTIC HUMAN FROM PHOTO! hahaha.

Okay, so the first step is to check out Zester's tutorial:
http://forum.maratis3d.com/viewtopic.php?id=791

Now, this geebles thing is going to help me make skin look more realistic.
I am thinking of using it on a seemless photo a close up of skin pores.

Then I take that and apply it to the mesh as a SPECULAR TEXTURE and a NORMAL MAP. But I would have to apply it only in certain areas.

Or I can somehow turn the diffuse map into a normal map. I do want to projection paint the pores however.

This could work for hair too. Think- simple mesh, normal map on the hair to simulate detail.
We will see what comes of it.

Edit:
HAIR(Test1):
PunBB bbcode test

Last edited by Tutorial Doctor (2013-10-22 17:31:05)

  • VeganDev
  • Vegan, Humanitarian Game Developer
  • Offline

Re: Realistic Modeling from a photo(discussion)

zester wrote:

Here VeganDev I tested it out for you.....

Story: As Zester, TD, VeganDev  enter,  what appears to be an abondoned alien spacecraft, Zester smiles at TD clips a lifeline to VeganDevs harness and pushes him over the side. As both Zester and TD ROFL they can here VeganDev whimpering "THAT WASN'T FUNNY GUYS!!!!" Zester reply's with "Ohhh hush your not hurt, by the way how far is the drop and do you see anything that looks like alien eggs?" VeganDev responds with "YAH its far and I see .... there is something moving down here" Zester then pulls his flash light from his belt turns it on and tosses it over the side. TD looks at zester confused. Zester responds  "he is from Missouri, its the 'show me' state well, if there hostile or hungry he will find out in a min." TD "Gocha good thinking".

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-mjO4kMlfvWI/UmYhEdh2AnI/AAAAAAAABtc/R3ZqV3KlTAU/w960-h540-no/untitled.png

5 Min later TD turns to Zester "He doesn't sound to good down there" Zester responds "VeganDev you want my LazerBlaster?"
VeganDev "Ahhhh oh god its in my mouth, caugh caugh ahhhhhh no no no no!!!!!!". Zester "Hmmm nope looks like he has it under control, besides he is non-violent I don't think he uses firearms"  TD "Ohhh thats right ok".


And that ladys and gents is the power of a short story, a 6 poly cube and a motherboard greeble, and why irritating me while on a strange alienship is typically a bad idea.

Captain's Zester and TD were later accommodated and ranked to General, for there bravery and heroic efforts and discovering the mating habits of the "Vocteee" a previously unknown and intelligent species of space squid originating from the third moon of saturn.

Sorry  but NO, haha. I remain unconvinced, as your image is very lackluster, compared to the 'starwars' ship, which Im almost positive now given your lame attempt )( lol), was done via the software/automated setup noted on the wiki page wink

Your ahem, incoherent story telling rambling aside , I'm still in the 'SHOWME' stage ,,haha

Somehow I seriously refuse to believe, that a  multimillion dollar studio like lucas arts, is going to be doing what we here on a oss engine website are doing, at least when it comes to making starwars ships look 'authentic'. And no, I don't particularly find your 'borg' cube impressive LOL.  E for effort wink

So just how bored are you lately zester, or is that some type of psychotic disorder doing on there ? ;0-0heh

Last edited by VeganDev (2013-10-22 17:32:06)

Re: Realistic Modeling from a photo(discussion)

I actually do believe that a multi-million dollar studio would use this effect. All he would have to do to get those faces extruded is bump up the contrast on one of the generated maps and make it a displacement map. He could use a displace modifier to make it extrude.

I can actually extrude the faces of that circuit board by adding more geometry to the plane I used. However, in game development we don't use that many polys, so we would just use them in a flatter way. haha.

These big companies area all about OPTIMIZATION, because that means saving money and that is what rich folk like to do. If it yields a good effect, and it is inexpensive (money wise and processing wise) then why not?

This Greeble's thing is a good tip. And I can see why someone would hand draw a greeble (And perhaps they would use a procedural generation of the normal map) for custom shapes.

Zester seems pretty professional to me though, and I am sure could work for a movie industry, if he hasn't already. haha.

Re: Realistic Modeling from a photo(discussion)

VeganDev wrote:
zester wrote:

Here VeganDev I tested it out for you.....

Story: As Zester, TD, VeganDev  enter,  what appears to be an abondoned alien spacecraft, Zester smiles at TD clips a lifeline to VeganDevs harness and pushes him over the side. As both Zester and TD ROFL they can here VeganDev whimpering "THAT WASN'T FUNNY GUYS!!!!" Zester reply's with "Ohhh hush your not hurt, by the way how far is the drop and do you see anything that looks like alien eggs?" VeganDev responds with "YAH its far and I see .... there is something moving down here" Zester then pulls his flash light from his belt turns it on and tosses it over the side. TD looks at zester confused. Zester responds  "he is from Missouri, its the 'show me' state well, if there hostile or hungry he will find out in a min." TD "Gocha good thinking".

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-mjO4kMlfvWI/UmYhEdh2AnI/AAAAAAAABtc/R3ZqV3KlTAU/w960-h540-no/untitled.png

5 Min later TD turns to Zester "He doesn't sound to good down there" Zester responds "VeganDev you want my LazerBlaster?"
VeganDev "Ahhhh oh god its in my mouth, caugh caugh ahhhhhh no no no no!!!!!!". Zester "Hmmm nope looks like he has it under control, besides he is non-violent I don't think he uses firearms"  TD "Ohhh thats right ok".


And that ladys and gents is the power of a short story, a 6 poly cube and a motherboard greeble, and why irritating me while on a strange alienship is typically a bad idea.

Captain's Zester and TD were later accommodated and ranked to General, for there bravery and heroic efforts and discovering the mating habits of the "Vocteee" a previously unknown and intelligent species of space squid originating from the third moon of saturn.

Sorry  but NO, haha. I remain unconvinced, as your image is very lackluster, compared to the 'starwars' ship, which Im almost positive now given your lame attempt )( lol), was done via the software/automated setup noted on the wiki page wink

Your ahem, incoherent story telling rambling aside , I'm still in the 'SHOWME' stage ,,haha

Somehow I seriously refuse to believe, that a  multimillion dollar studio like lucas arts, is going to be doing what we here on a oss engine website are doing, at least when it comes to making starwars ships look 'authentic'. And no, I don't particularly find your 'borg' cube impressive LOL.  E for effort wink

So just how bored are you lately zester, or is that some type of psychotic disorder doing on there ? ;0-0heh

Shows how much you actually know about Star Wars.

Paraphrasing Wikipedia, a greeble is an element of detailing added to an object, explicitly designed to break up the surface and add nonfunctional complexity. A greeble adds to the illusion of scale because it breaks up the linear flow of the eye over an object. It's a term that comes from science fiction, particularly movie special effects.

Kubrik's minimalist masterpiece 2001 had greebles and called them "wiggets." But Star Wars took them to the next level. The original Star Destroyers were an exercise in selective greebling, extraneous parts protruding everywhere on the overall form to give the effect of scale and drama. The Millennium Falcon is essentially one large greebled serving plate. The desire for an imperfect form is a quest for more believability, based on the idea that, as humans, we respond and empathize more with imperfection than the perfect sculpted object. There's also the obvious desire for cool techie-looking stuff. This from Wikipedia: "An anecdote from the creation of the first Star Wars movie involves the Tunisian customs enquiring what part of the costume of C-3PO (listed as "assorted greebles") was. Their response was allegedly 'Something that looks cool but doesn't actually do anything.'"

The first couple Starwars Movies Actually Glued old Garbage Electrical Parts to there Models for the Greeble Effect.  Now they use a Combination of Displacement and Normal Maps for Movies, We would use only Normalmaps for Games.

VeganDev you can believe whatever you wan't "research it your self", cause I am not your mother with the job of spoon feeding you.

  • VeganDev
  • Vegan, Humanitarian Game Developer
  • Offline

Re: Realistic Modeling from a photo(discussion)

Gez zester, lighten up already ?

Why do you insist on being so rude here to me ?

I was asking for proof of your insistence that that ship can be done with simple greebles. I doubted that, wanting answers based on the    Wikipedia page I found, that clearly said, expensive fancy software, automated whatever, is used in he industry. I don't think I was  reaching for anything, the actual statement is right thee on the Wikipedia page , right?

So, how is someone , not a professional in the industry, as you also aren't, supposed to know , WHEN fancy software is used to make greebles, vs a quick unfancy normal map from a circuit board ? lol

Calm down zester , I asked simple questions, so you don't need to get nasty with me ;)haha Maybe you're having a bad day, so don't take it out on others  , thats' just not nice.

Last edited by VeganDev (2013-10-22 18:25:25)

Re: Realistic Modeling from a photo(discussion)

VeganDev wrote:

Gez zester, lighten up already ?
Why do you insist on being so rude here to me ?

Because I don't like you and think you take up valuable bandwidth on these forums?

23 Reply by 255

  • 255
  • Member
  • Offline

Re: Realistic Modeling from a photo(discussion)

Oh god, there's hating also in this thread.
Poor anael he will have a lot to clean today lol

Last edited by 255 (2013-10-22 19:45:26)

  • anael
  • Administrator
  • Offline

Re: Realistic Modeling from a photo(discussion)

Topic closed,
do you really think I have time for that ? sad